Let’s cut to the chase.
I recently had a discussion with Marty Cagan — yes, the Marty Cargan, author of Inspired, Empowered, and founder of the Silicon Valley Product Group. And, as you might expect, it was one of the most enlightening conversations of my career.
(Don’t worry, we recorded everything 👇)
Together, we talked about the ideal time split between product discovery and customer interviews and why engineers are your best innovators.
But let’s start with the number one thing I wanted to learn: what makes a great product manager?
“There are some people that I meet that really don’t want to learn,” says Cagan. “They don’t want to learn new things. They don’t want to think hard about hard problems. And of course, I don’t know what to do with those people. I don’t know how to help them.”
Thankfully, Cagan says “most people aren’t like that”.
“I think it’s hard to imagine being a product person if you’re not a lifetime learner,” he says. “The ability to learn and consider how you might apply new technologies is incredibly valuable.”
And Marty Cagan isn’t alone. In a Forrester article titled The Case For The Curious Product Manager, the author says, “Your curiosity is key to understanding a customer’s business and what drives them and will help you unlock unidentified opportunities to create new value in the future.”
But how far should you take it? Well, according to Cagan, pretty far.
“I always recommend,” he says, “if somebody wants to be a product person who’s never been a developer before, never been an engineer, I say, if you’ve never taken a course in a programming language, just take one. Just sign up and take one. It’s remarkable how much it really helps somebody to start to view technology and its role in a different way.”
Recommendations are welcome in the comments!
The roles, responsibilities, and demands put on product managers seems to grow by the day. So, next up, I wanted to ask Cagan what he sees as the perfect way for product managers to divide up their day or week.
“If you don’t have four hours a day [to spend on product discovery], it’s gonna be hard to make sufficient progress,” says Cagan. “Most people need the majority of their day to focus on these activities.”
This includes things like:
1. Meeting with your stakeholders to talk about their constraints
2. Meeting with engineers to talk about the enabling technology
3. Talking with user researchers about questions you’re trying to get answered
4. Talking with data analysts about understanding some of the data trends
So that’s half your week gone right there. But what about the rest of your time?
“If you’re working on a user-facing product,” says Cagan, “the minimum is three one-hour sessions a week [talking to customers]. Because if you don’t have those three sessions a week, how are you going to get the feedback you need on your products? Now, if I’m working on a major redesign with a company, instead of three one-hour sessions a week, it’s probably 10.”
Wondering why all these customer calls are so important? “Data tests are great for telling us why something works,” says Cagan. “But they’re not good for telling us why it doesn’t work. And so the face-to-face tests are meant to be a minimum at getting good answers as to why that stuff isn’t working.”
And if you can bring designers into those conversations too, even better, as watching customers use your product is a proven path to great UX.
Last but not least, I asked Cagan where innovation comes from.
“Products come from product teams,” he says. “They don’t come from product managers. They don’t come from designers. They don’t come from your customers. They don’t come from your executives. They come from teams. So, but then, where does innovation really come from?”
“Most of the time it comes from your engineers. And it’s not a mystery as to why. The engineers are working with the enabling technology every single day. So they are in the best position to see what’s just now possible. And that’s really where most innovation comes from. It’s combining a real customer problem with something that is just now possible.”
If you’re looking for a silver bullet on how to drive innovation in your team, this is it.
“The magic happens when we do those three one-hour tests I described,” says Cagan, “but we bring along an engineer. And I can’t tell you how often the engineer will see something during that test that the product manager and designer didn’t even know was a possibility.”
If you want to be the best product manager you can be, stay curious and eager to learn — and maybe think about taking a course in a programming language.
Try to spend four hours a day on product discovery and have at least three one-hour customer conversations a week. And if you’re working on a big project like a product redesign, double or triple the amount of time you spend with customers.
Lastly, invite engineers to your customer calls once in a while. As the people working with your enabling technology, they’re best placed to shine a light on new ways to solve user problems.
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